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  1. #1

    Default Car Allowance Rebate System - CARS

    Just had a chance to read Ben Deutschman's Legislative Affairs column in the July issue of Smoke Signals, Ben talks about the latest "Cash for Clunkers" idea and attached is an article which originally ran in the Sunday Edition of Newsday back on April 5, 2009.

    Have things ever changed since Ben wrote that column.

    On June 24, 2009 the Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act of 2009 was signed into law. The legislation requires the NHTSA to implement the Car Allowance Rebate System by July 24, 2009.

    This is not a voucher system, new car dealers will simply apply a credit to the purchase price of a qualifying new vehicle when a qualifying used vehicle is traded in. The credit will not be taxed as income for the consumer.

    The trade-in must be less than 25 years old, be in drivable condition, and continuously insured and registered to the same owner for one full year preceding the trade-in.

    In addition, the trade-in must have a "new" combined city/highway fuel economy of 18 mpg or less. Note: the "new" combined city/highway fuel ecomony is the calculation based on the new formula introduced by the EPA in 2008. So what they have done is gone back thru all the previous estimates and recalculated them based on the new formula. This is significant because it can take a car that you might think is efficient enough to avoid the program and put it in the program.

    Take my own supercharged 1995 Bonneville. According to the window sticker provided with the car when it was new the city mpg was 17 and the highway mpg was 25 for a combined average of 20 mpg. So you would expect the 1995 Bonneville is exempt from the program. But in 2008 the EPA revised the formula and based on the revised formula the city mpg is 15 and the highway mpg is 23 for a combined average of 18 mpg. So now this car qualifies.

    The new vehicle may be purchased or leased, must have a msrp less than $45,000 and must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 22 mpg. The credit is $3,500. If the new vehicle has a combined fuel economy value that is at least 10 mpg higher that the trade-in, the credit increases to $4,500.

    The trade-in vehicle must be crushed or shredded so that it will not be resold. "some parts" of the vehilce may be sold prior to crushing or shredding but this cannot include the engine or drive train. The engine and drive train must be crushed or shredded.

    For more info, check out http://www.cars.gov/
    Last edited by aukc; July 16th, 2009 at 02:38.
    Mike Klassen - 1995 white Bonneville SSEi

  2. #2

    Default

    based on the list of vehicles that were traded in under the CARS program which is available for download from the government site, here is the list of Pontiacs crushed under this program





    Mike Klassen - 1995 white Bonneville SSEi

  3. #3

    Default

    Here is the summary information from the government site regarding new vehicles purchased under the program

    Top 10 New Vehicles Purchased

    1.Toyota Corolla
    2.Honda Civic
    3.Toyota Camry
    4.Ford Focus FWD
    5.Hyundai Elantra
    6.Nissan Versa
    7.Toyota Prius
    8.Honda Accord
    9.Honda Fit
    10.Ford Escape FWD

    New Vehicles Manufacturers

    Toyota 19.5%
    General Motors 17.6%
    Ford 14.4%
    Honda 13.1%
    Nissan 8.7%
    Hyundai 7.2%
    Chrysler 6.5%
    Kia 4.3%
    Subaru 2.5%
    Mazda 2.4%
    Volkswagen 2.0%
    Mitsubishi 0.5%
    Suzuki 0.5%
    MINI 0.4%
    Smart 0.2%
    BMW 0.1%
    Volvo 0.1%
    All Other <0.1%
    Mike Klassen - 1995 white Bonneville SSEi

  4. #4

    Thumbs up

    And they wonder why our economy stinks like it does, not hard for me to connect the dots, just look how many people not only foolishly buy into these so-called 'Green Initiatives' but do so by supporting economies outside the U.S. Even those who have Manufacturing Plants inside the U.S., still send a Lion's share of their profits back to the country their Company's Headquarters are based in, so in the end, buying a U.S. built Honda for example, mainly helps Japan's economy, much more than it does ours.

    Now about that 'Green' part of these 'Cash-For-Clunker' programs, in ALL their various incarnations since I started following them (circa 1991), EVERY one of them ignores, or tries to ignore, the greater impact on the environment, caused by EACH new car built, versus the much smaller impact of maintaining, and running an older vehicle. Oh, and not one 'Cash-For-Clunkers' program, will ever solve one other major problem we are facing, an ever diminishing supply of Petroleum, especially in a region where WE own the land it is under.

    All I can say, is, if I was buying a product in a Store, and the Store personnel routinely treated me like dirt, and caused me any other problems, I would be looking long and hard to find some way to avoid EVER dealing with that Store again. Not an easy task when the product happens to be Petroleum, but one we needed to deal with 36 years ago, and unfortunately did little of substance about in all those years. For one thing, even if the Greenies don't like this, we need a suitable 'Liquid Motor Fuel' to run the nation's existing fleet on, before we can move ahead with developing any other means of propelling Motor Vehicles, of all sizes. In order to make alternative 'Liquid Motor Fuels' a reality, what has to happen, is to get the funding to those who have the knowledge and facilities to produce 'Liquid Motor Fuels' from Biomass (a.k.a. ALL types of Plant Matter and Waste Matter), versus trying to put all our eggs in the one basket of Corn based 'Liquid Motor Fuels.' Not an easy thing to accomplish, but it beats being forced to deal with those who, for whatever reasons, currently treat us like dirt at their Petroleum Store (a.k.a. the Oil Producing Nations).

    We sure would gain more from what I wrote about above, then ANY 'Cash-For-Clunkers' program has, or ever will do for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by aukc View Post
    Here is the summary information from the government site regarding new vehicles purchased under the program

    Top 10 New Vehicles Purchased

    1.Toyota Corolla
    2.Honda Civic
    3.Toyota Camry
    4.Ford Focus FWD
    5.Hyundai Elantra
    6.Nissan Versa
    7.Toyota Prius
    8.Honda Accord
    9.Honda Fit
    10.Ford Escape FWD

    New Vehicles Manufacturers

    Toyota 19.5%
    General Motors 17.6%
    Ford 14.4%
    Honda 13.1%
    Nissan 8.7%
    Hyundai 7.2%
    Chrysler 6.5%
    Kia 4.3%
    Subaru 2.5%
    Mazda 2.4%
    Volkswagen 2.0%
    Mitsubishi 0.5%
    Suzuki 0.5%
    MINI 0.4%
    Smart 0.2%
    BMW 0.1%
    Volvo 0.1%
    All Other <0.1%

  5. #5
    022561 Guest

    Default

    Ben, as I have said in another thread these companies are global. There is no U.S. auto industry unless you include every manufacturer that builds cars here. As I said before, there are some so called imports that have more U.S. content than some so called U.S. domestic brands. These companies have no allegiance to anyone country as proven by G.M. this year. If they had they would have pulled assets out of China to s**** up things here. Tell me how can a company like Nissan take more assets back to Japan when it's controlled interest lies with Renault?? They don't because they are global!
    Haven't you ever heard the term globalization ? It starts with large business, then economies (a period we are in ) and finally government.

    Don

  6. #6

    Thumbs up

    Yes, I have heard of Globalization, and whether Renault, or Nissan (Datsun) is the final recipient of the profits, or a cadre of subassembly suppliers, the cash flow is largely out of the U.S. economy, not within. Globalization, is a very convenient excuse to use source countries for either whole vehicles, or parts of them, from parts of the world where they work like slaves, and for the most part, dump the byproducts of production into their own environment. We'd have to do the same thing in order to be as low cost per unit. So, do we just throw uur hands up, and say done? Or, do we first buy American, and demand that the U.S. Automakers do the same?

    Yeah, I know, can't happen. Can it?

    Quote Originally Posted by 022561 View Post
    Ben, as I have said in another thread these companies are global. There is no U.S. auto industry unless you include every manufacturer that builds cars here. As I said before, there are some so called imports that have more U.S. content than some so called U.S. domestic brands. These companies have no allegiance to anyone country as proven by G.M. this year. If they had they would have pulled assets out of China to s**** up things here. Tell me how can a company like Nissan take more assets back to Japan when it's controlled interest lies with Renault?? They don't because they are global!
    Haven't you ever heard the term globalization ? It starts with large business, then economies (a period we are in ) and finally government.

    Don

  7. #7
    022561 Guest

    Default

    Ben, where can you buy a American product?? I made a mistake in my last post. I said globalization is in all big business and a major foothold in economies, but it in our government too. I don't want you to think I favor all of this but that's just the way it is. After they(our government) level the playing field and distribute our assets will some of the big jobs and industry come back. Our standard of living will be much less so we can compete globally.

    Don

  8. #8

    Thumbs up

    Without trying to sound sarcastic, and I'm not trying to be, I can say, you can buy American products, but it's not easy to find them. More of what is GM, Ford, and Chrysler, is American sourced, than a Toyota, a Nissan, a Hyundai, Daewoo, Mazda, or other import. I will still patronize American brand vehicle companies, before succumbong to the logic of-'it just doesn't matter anymore.' I do the same thing when buying tools. Last year I needed a pair of Vice Grips, I could have bought the Lowes brand Kobalt ones (China) for $12.00, or the American made Vice-Grip brand for $14.00. I bought the Vice Grips brand. They were better quality, and why support some Chinese, or other foreign company, when I could support an American one?

    By the way, I didn't think you were gung ho Globalization, but I hate that word, because it's become the buzzword of those who would happily drag our standard of living down, just as long as their profits soar. Not that profit making is a horrible thing, but why line the pockets of the few, when I can spread my hard earned Income around for the many, and profits will still be there to be had. A race to the bottom, gains us nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 022561 View Post
    Ben, where can you buy a American product?? I made a mistake in my last post. I said globalization is in all big business and a major foothold in economies, but it in our government too. I don't want you to think I favor all of this but that's just the way it is. After they(our government) level the playing field and distribute our assets will some of the big jobs and industry come back. Our standard of living will be much less so we can compete globally.

    Don

  9. #9
    022561 Guest

    Default

    I kind of feel like I'm shouting this while I'm standing next to a F-18 on take off. Just remember G.M. and Nissan are NOT U.S. or Japanese companies. They are International companies (new term). Interesting to note that the last generation of Firebird has less U.S. content than a Nissan Maxima/ Altima / Fronteer/ Titan / Armada. They were all built here, and even the Nissan's engines were built here in Tennessee, Hell, most of them were designed in California at Nissan Design International in San Diego county!
    Just look at Europe with all those currencies first going to the common market, then going to the euro (except Britain for the time being) and the North american trade agreement ect. All roads are leading to one. Figure this: with big business and finance out there there has to be some kind of control by the people of the world and that means some sort of world government. Now you say well we'll have none of that! but I'm afraid it's already happened. Ever heard of the IMF or the WTO.??? They are the first installment of of that world government, although they police themselves.
    It will take some time to wrestle the Constitution away from us but our own people have been doing a good job of it for them anyway. If you read the constitution you will discover that Health, Education, Welfare are state responsibilities and not federal responsibilities and you will see that the EPA and IRS is not regulated by the people. You see it's a little bit at a time so it's hard to notice.
    It's hard to understand that the cat has been out of the bag for a long time and the powers that be: Industry, finance, and some people in our government and other governments will never let us go back.
    Good luck to all of us,


    Don

  10. #10

    Thumbs up

    No F-18 here, just a realization that no matter how world, or International GM might like to call themselves, or Ford, maybe even Chrysler now, at least two of them are still Headquartered on U.S. soil, the others merely rent space here, and the IMF, WTO, and WT_ (guess you know where that last one was headed), try as they do, still don't run G.M., or Ford, and if G.M.'s Management learns to stop shooting their own Company in the foot regularly, and often, G.M. will pay off their LOANS, and return to being fully independent Corporation. No matter how many Engines they design here, or Bodies, or Frames, Driveshafts, Spark Plugs, Transmissions, etc, the other Companies are not Headquartered on U.S. soil. It has been, and will be, a constant battle to keep what's left of the U.S. manufacturing base, against a growing effort by those who dwarf you and I when it comes to financial resources, and who are the prime movers behind the race to the bottom for you and I, using such pretty words like: Globalization, Internationalism, Global Economy, to hide behind something that isn't going to help anyone, but the few who feel they ought to control everything. It's an age old battle, and much like the fight for our rights as 'Vehicle Owners', this battle is one we just have to resign ourselves to realizing, is an ongoing one. Also, much like the fight for our rights as 'Vehicle Owners' our opponents possess an attribute we 'little folk' seem to lack in sufficient quantity, dogged persistence.

    I fully realize that the best way to boil a Lobster, is a little bit at a time, hoping of course that it won't catch one to what's happening, until it's too late. I'm not a Lobster, neither are you, and there are more than just a few others who aren't Lobsters either. You don't have to spend your every waking hour working to help save what little we have left in the way of a manufacturing base, or opposing 'Cash-For-Clunker' programs either. A pot shot here and there, will get the job done, and like all over zealous entities before them, our opponents will eventually have bitten off more than they can chew, and those little swipes at them, be all that's needed to take them down.

    Or one can simply stay in a corner, saying all is lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by 022561 View Post
    I kind of feel like I'm shouting this while I'm standing next to a F-18 on take off. Just remember G.M. and Nissan are NOT U.S. or Japanese companies. They are International companies (new term). Interesting to note that the last generation of Firebird has less U.S. content than a Nissan Maxima/ Altima / Fronteer/ Titan / Armada. They were all built here, and even the Nissan's engines were built here in Tennessee, Hell, most of them were designed in California at Nissan Design International in San Diego county!
    Just look at Europe with all those currencies first going to the common market, then going to the euro (except Britain for the time being) and the North american trade agreement ect. All roads are leading to one. Figure this: with big business and finance out there there has to be some kind of control by the people of the world and that means some sort of world government. Now you say well we'll have none of that! but I'm afraid it's already happened. Ever heard of the IMF or the WTO.??? They are the first installment of of that world government, although they police themselves.
    It will take some time to wrestle the Constitution away from us but our own people have been doing a good job of it for them anyway. If you read the constitution you will discover that Health, Education, Welfare are state responsibilities and not federal responsibilities and you will see that the EPA and IRS is not regulated by the people. You see it's a little bit at a time so it's hard to notice.
    It's hard to understand that the cat has been out of the bag for a long time and the powers that be: Industry, finance, and some people in our government and other governments will never let us go back.
    Good luck to all of us,


    Don

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