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  1. #11
    022561 Guest

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    Les, forgot to tell you. I still hang around at the donut place, except we call it the Pismo derelicts. Check the site out. The only picture of me in it is (go to the picture gallery and then to 08 pictures for 8/23 the first 6 pictures is me and my 65 1200A (standard Kafer). Hard to believe I have owned that car since Aug of 68 and my 69 LeMans since Dec. 68. I special ordered the Lemans out of Majestic Pontiac. 330 Hp 4 bolt main 350 with t-400. It's funny when you see the movie White men can't jump because they drive by the dealership. It's on Crenshaw blvd. in the Crenshaw district of L.A. Just a FYI Les, there are a bunch of retired guys up here that worked L.A city or L.A. county. One friend of mine was in charge (roving supervisor) of the county fire dept maintenance. You should try to get Otto on this site. You two probably know more guys up here than me!!

    Don

  2. #12
    TININDN Guest

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    Hi Les:

    All I can say is FINALLY you are here!!!!!!!


    Hey Don:

    You and I have discussed the topic of "rod and customs" before, and your letter did get printed in Smoke Signals. Again, POCI welcomes all Pontiac Oakland and GMC enthusiasts and very much endorses the concept of "to each his own". I attached a couple of images of 30's Pontiacs that have been "rodded". These are cars, that there is no doubt in my mind would never have seen the streets again unless their "re-creators" had not sunk huge amounts of effort and money into these projects - these cars, as a result, have been preserved.

    What is most amazing is these very two cars won back-to-back MSRA Street Rod of the Year titles and that's no small accomplishment. And, both are Pontiac powered. What a tribute to the Pontiac hobby to have street rods that won major awards that are not "cookie cutter" Chevy powered Fords. Hopefully, Smoke Signals will feature these two cars in a combined article in the future.

    In regards to "pin-ups", I only hope you close your eyes every time you go into a repair shop that has a tool company calendar hanging on the wall. And, whatever you do never look at a book about the subject of WWII Bomber Nose Art - books actually have been devoted to this very subject. If you believe what you read it really helped boost the morale of our troops.

    And, by the way, POCI does not receive any advertising revenue from Koolhouse Publishing - we trade-out advertising with them and our POCI ads in their publications have resulted in some of their readers actually joining POCI.


    Thanks, and best wishes to our new "freshman" directors . . . .
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #13
    022561 Guest

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    Dave, it's not so much me myself that is worried about pin ups. It's when the grand kids get onto a site that their mother thinks it's a car site and so I don't like it.

    Don

    P.S. think of all the time & effort that went into those cars you just showed and how they were brought back to life. They could have been brought back stock just as well.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Portland In
    Posts
    781

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    Pure stock correct on those rods would've been a lot tougher and more dollars than the way they were built if they were what I normally see as a start.

    Now a guy who cuts up a numbers car to stuff a chevy, 30k worth of billet crap, and the latest wheels just to follow a trend should be castrated.

    Rodding an already parted or heavily rusted car isn't a big deal for me. I just get so sick of the same drivetrain/ interior/ wheels crap the most common street rods use that I quit looking at them in a hurry.

    It's kinda like looking at 100 100 point 65 GTO's sitting in a row. When it comes right down to it after the first couple I walk on buy unless something catches my eye. When you've seen one you've seen them all short of a different shade of paint.

    I do think a numbers car should be preserved at least visually. Cars that're built as a monetary investment don't impress me at all. Date coded hose clamps don't either, We were still throwing spring ring battery cables away when I started at the dealership in 85, They didn't work well when new and IMO there's no reason to put them back on a car that's used regularly.

    As I've posted before, Build them to drive as that's what they're intended purpose was no matter which way your project is going.

    That's one thing I really like about Les's cars, they're all built to drive.

    MIke

  5. #15

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    Don,
    Methinks you speak with forked tongue. Neither of your own cars you described in an earlier post are stock. Why did you not return them to stock instead of putting larger engines and updated suspensions in them? Are the considerable efforts of the original powertrain and suspension engineers not just as valuable as those of the stylists? Should those engineeers be offended by what you've done to their work?
    Alan Mayes
    Tullahoma, TN
    Southern Division Director
    1961 Ventura 2-door kustom

  6. #16
    022561 Guest

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    Mike, thanks for making me feel a little better. I kinda got the feeling that Dave was trying to reach across and say "enough of this, you have already had your say in the mailroom section" although it says if you've got an issue to please go to your regional Director and now poor Les you are it.
    I think the club should take the old original G.M. attitude it had with the GTO. That is " We don't like it, but since you got it out there-just don't let it get any bigger". Mind you all I said old attitude. I am no saint as Les can tell you. Both of my Pontiac's are not stock, but they look stock at a show. For example when I finish my 62 cat- at a show it will have a second set of wheels (15x6) with a trim ring added with the original 14" spinner wheel cover bolted to it for the look. A 15" wheel for me is the largest I will go with 50's- 60's and 70's cars because the design of the body and the wheel house were meant to go with that size wheel. On the street and track my LeMans uses a ft 15x7 Rally2 and a 15x8 Rally2 rear. Fortunally the LeMans has F-X body ft spindles with 11" rotors so I can use the original wheels and wheel covers if I show it. The point is that I and some others go to great lengths to make the car look stock. I think the club should represent the product it values so much. I do.

    Don

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Portland In
    Posts
    781

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    Dave, may have very well been trying to say that but I wasn't done yet. He's known me long enough to know when I have something to say I will.


    To make it short there's enough room in this club for all that represent the Pontiac brand. If you restrict modifications then you'll kill this club as sure as if you put a gun to someone's head and pull the trigger with a full chamber.

    Model A Fords are a perfect example, How many do you see with 100 point restos now. 30-50 yrs ago you saw a LOT of them out and about. As the orignal owners die off or get to the point they're not interested then that segment of the member's population dwindles and the modified crowd comes in. The same will happen with Pontiac, Chevrolet, Buick, Mopar, Ect as the generation that had these cars when they were young passes on or passes the title on.

    Personally I think WAY too much of that [ the totally stock] mindset is associated with the club as it is. It's one of the reasons I never joined before I did.

    I'm a racer at heart but with a wife, mortgage and kids that's not happening unless we're prepared to live in a race trailer and be on the road all the time. I know that's where I'll end up if I get back into it for any length of time.

    I'm not advocating Super Radical 100k rods nor am I pushing the 100 point gold trailer queens. There just needs to be acceptance for each end of the spectrum and those in between.

    Mike

    I
    Last edited by Mike Nixon; May 25th, 2009 at 18:14.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Portland In
    Posts
    781

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    As a side point, The flamed 61 that started this whole discussion is a sharp car with a lot of attn to detail from the photos I've seen of it. However, it's not so far from stock that it couldn't be taken back to that look if that's what the owner wants and can afford. IMO.


    Mike

  9. #19
    TININDN Guest

    Default

    Don:

    This Forum, as Smoke Signals, is "open" to all of our members to express their thoughts and ideas as it pertains to our hobby. Your e-mail to me said -"Hi Dave, I see that my suggestion about a one members opinion had no effect, although the letter could have been printed in the POCI Mailroom section. . . . . I told my wife that I didn't think they would put it in print because it would just stir things up." But, as you found out, your letter had been "to press" long before you sent that e-mail. And, it got printed, because that's the way POCI operates now. Feel free to bring anything up you want on the Forum and express your likes and dislikes (just stay within the rules).

    All I ask, as I ask all of our members, is at least tolerate what the other guy likes, even if it isn't your cup of tea. He might not like your cup of tea either.

    I think Les will be a very good director, as will Alan. They have very different yet common interests. And, as I said in my May President's Message - Diversity + Solidarity = POCI. Now that we are an orphan, we need to stick together even more tightly.

    Thanks for contributing - I like to see activity on the Forum.

  10. #20
    022561 Guest

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    Mike, Good point you have so in my defense I can only say that I like to go fast and I especially like to go fast going around corners. I used to do alot of drag racing but have found G/T or time test gives me a better high. The reason is that the good feeling is over in a few seconds in drag racing and on a road course the feeling depending on the driver and cars endurance can last for hours. Emagine that "endorfins going off for hours". So to do this some changes must be made. But when you lift the hood everything looks stock and most of the parts come out of the G.M. parts book. The body is totally stock including it's original vinyl roof and complete original interior, the car even has factory A/C. The point is it looks like it did when it left the factory and it does not say me. It says Pontiac. I guess Jim ****ers and Royal Pontiac spoke with fork tongue when they put that 421 in the Car & Driver test car. We didn't think about anything but promoting the image we love, and that is Pontiac.

    Don

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