Ames Performance Engineering - Click Here!

POCI LINKS

2017 Annual Convention - Click Here! Visit the POCI Club Store - Click Here! Join us on Facebook - Click Here! Join us on Pinterest - Click Here! Vist the POMARC - Click Here!

Advertise on POCI.org
Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 95
  1. #11
    022561 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by decotriumph View Post
    I'd like to ask all you guys and gals who own Pontiac, Oakland, or GMC street rods, customs, or otherwise modified cars and trucks a question. If you don't belong to the Street Rod & Modified Chapter, what is your reason for not joining?

    The SRM chapter is one of the oldest in POCI yet has pretty low membership. I'm curious as to what the reasons are. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Forget I tried to contribute.

    D.
    Last edited by 022561; May 6th, 2010 at 15:25. Reason: No response- message overlooked

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Blackstock Ont. Canada
    Posts
    436

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by decotriumph View Post
    Well, the chapter is called the "Street Rod & Modified Chapter," so to me it has always meant street rod, hot rod, pro-mod, pro street, race car, custom, etc. If a car fits in any of the modified or customs classes at the convention, it would be a good candidate.
    OK Alan, on reading this I can see where some members would be 'upset" as the last word was" CANDIDATE" either it fits or doesn',t drop the" candidate" to be judged yes or no!!!Is it not modified enough??? This would "put me off" as well, yes , my 64 2+2 is Modified, but looks stock, other than the Mags, can't tell untill you lift the "BONET" Dualquads, updated trans. Bonniville dash, etc. Does this fit the "rules" ???
    Pete Barber 64 2+2 Htp. Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been "TURNED OFF"

  3. #13

    Default

    Pete,
    I didn't mean "candidate" as something to vote on. Like all chapters, the SRM chapter is open to any POCI member. He/she doesn't have to own a modified car. In such a case, it would be assumed that he/she had an interest in them which is certainly up to the individual. I have considered joining the Custom Safari Chapter simply because I like the cars. I will likely never own one. Same with Little Indian Chapter. I really dig those cars.
    Alan Mayes
    Tullahoma, TN
    Southern Division Director
    1961 Ventura 2-door kustom

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Southeast MI
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Alan,

    The dues issue is only one part of the problem, in my opinion. I suspect, as mentioned above, is the purists who only want to see survivor and concours/restored correct cars tend to make up a large majority of POCI. In fact, I submit to you that the POCI, in it's own by-laws does not openly promote "modified or customized" Pontiac, Oaklands, and GMCs as such. In fact, the purpose actual uses the words preservation and restoration twice. Here is the POCI's stated purpose from the by-laws:

    "C. The purpose of this organization shall be to:
    1. Promote the preservation and restoration of all Pontiac, Oakland and GMC Vehicles. To ensure the understanding and the education of their historical significance, past, present, and future to our membership and the public.
    2. Support the formation of local and specialty groups in the form of chapters to ensure public display and enlightenment of the historical significance of all Pontiac, Oakland and GMC Vehicles.
    3. Provide assistance to members through library services, technical advisors, and regular publication of periodicals to increase their understanding of the historical significance of Pontiac, Oakland and GMC Vehicles and to assist in authentic restoration and/or preservation of these vehicles.
    4. Provide education to rule making and law making bodies regarding the historical significance of Pontiac, Oakland and GMC Vehicles."

    That said, the POCI does have modified sections at the Convention as well as SRM chapter itself. So there is some support and recognition for modified cars. However, if one assumes that the Smoke Signals is the acknowledged "voice of the POCI membership", then almost all you would ever see are survivors and restored cars. Having said that, the last several issues have been refreshing to feature some highly modified cars. Quite frankly, I would love to see a gold, silver, bronze, senion, junior, and champion grille emblems for modified and customized vehicles as well. I think period correct cars have their place, but modified cars should be equally appreciated. I am sure you agree with that sentiment.

    I think before POCI can more broadly support and promote customized and modified cars, it has to change it's by-laws, and it's members have to openly accept these cars as equals. That is a long way to go, but not impossible. However, I suspect the trend of mild customizing, pro-touring, street rods, hot rods, and race cars will continue. So an mild revolution of this nature will need some champions to go to bat for the cause. Any one willing to champion the cause here in front of the POCI board?

  5. #15

    Default

    PMDJIM says POCI is full of purists. Frosty says POCI does not openly promote modified cars. What club are YOU two in?

    Why don't the club officers reading this tell us who on the board or with influence in the club is a purist fighting you against modified cars? No one that I know; give me ONE name of anyone who matters.

    Frosty wants the by-laws changed so modified cars are "supported!?!" Smoke Signals, the board and the website have street rods and customs everywhere and not a "purist" in sight, how much more support does anyone need? A revolution, a champion and a cause? Hey Frosty, whoever you are, look around, the purists are dead, you've won already!

    Todd Crews

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Blackstock Ont. Canada
    Posts
    436

    Default

    WHOA!!!! think we just opened a "CAN OF WORMS" here!!! I don't think you'll ever get the purist's & modified's to ever agree on each others cars. I've been to shows & cruise's here in Ontario & the Restorers call the modified owners "BUTCHERS" & can't see how much work is involved & don't care & the modifieds have no interest in a car that won't keep up to traffic flow or ends up as a "T Q" [trailer Queen]that can't be driven on the road for fear of a road rash!!!! Different strokes for different blokes, myself, I'll go look at a nicely restored car of any make & if I get a good receiption from owner after he asks about what I drive then Great, but most times they wouldn't cross the row, at a show to look at a MODIFIED. I have learned to be "thick skinned" on the name calling & won't lower myself to return the name calling!!!!
    Pete Barber 64 2+2 Htp. Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been "TURNED OFF"

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Southeast MI
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Todd,

    I am not trying to name call anyone here. Nor am I bashing purists or greatly restored cars in general. I do enjoy a restored car and commend people who want that sort of thing. Good for them. It is not always my cup of tea either. However, you can also appreciate the fact that some people do consider a modified car as "butchering" and it tends to be demeaning to the owner. You can not deny that this attitude does exist with some people.

    I specifically cited the by-laws because I had a member of my chapter quote me verbatim this by-law. He was condemning modifieds and said that they are not be part of the POCI charter and modifieds should not be put into the Smoke Signals. So to the extent that this is the stated POCI purpose, he is correct. Modifeds are not supported in the by-laws, period. That is all I am saying.

    I was pointing out why I perceived the SRM chapter is having difficulty in membership is because several reasons, (A) SRM not well known to many [I rather doubt that], (B) the cost of joining multiple chapters [perhaps], or (C) people don't feel that their modified cars are appreciated and respected the same way a survivor or restored car is by the membership.

    If modifieds are so widely accepted, then why is everything judged on 400 point scale based on PHS documentation, build sheets, and factory and dealer documentation as the standard for judging any car at the convention? I can readily accept a survivor or restored car being judged against the factory/dealer standard - without question this should be the norm. Why is there any standard at all (except perhaps for safety reasons) for modifieds? By definition, a modified car is what the owner wants, not what the factory built! Why can't I earn a gold, silver, or bronze status as a modified? Right now, as the judging rules are written, it is highly unlikely that a modified would acheive the necessary points to reach those thresholds.

    So if you think I am insulting someone, I apologize, this was not my intent. I am simply stating my viewpoint. I have meet several people in POCI that I would consider "purists". They want and indulge in owning restored vehicles. That is their right. I simply think there needs to be equal consideration and respect from the purists for my fellow modified owners and our work too. In my humble opinion, that starts with the POCI by-laws being changed to more openly accept and support modifieds. I am not trying to turn this into bashing or trashing POCI.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Blackstock Ont. Canada
    Posts
    436

    Default

    Frosty, I couldn't agree with you more, your explaination clarifies the situation to me anyway!!! I've only been to one Convention [2005] & did see & hear the attitude from some "purist" members towards our modified "Poncho's" but I didn't know the judging rules,as I didn't expect to win anything when we put our 2+2 in the semi modified section, we were just happy to be there!!!!I feel that the BY-Laws should be changed to reflect the presence of the modified vehicles, & yes , gain the respect they deserve
    Pete Barber 64 2+2 Htp. Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been "TURNED OFF"

  9. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frosty View Post
    Todd,

    I am not trying to name call anyone here. However, some people do consider a modified car as "butchering" . You can not deny that this attitude does exist with some people.

    Modifeds are not supported in the by-laws, period. That is all I am saying.

    I was pointing out why I perceived the SRM chapter is having difficulty in membership is because several reasons, (A) SRM not well known to many [I rather doubt that], (B) the cost of joining multiple chapters [perhaps], or (C) people don't feel that their modified cars are appreciated and respected the same way a survivor or restored car is by the membership.

    If modifieds are so widely accepted, then why is everything judged on 400 point scale based on PHS documentation, build sheets, and factory and dealer documentation as the standard for judging any car at the convention? I can readily accept a survivor or restored car being judged against the factory/dealer standard - without question this should be the norm. Why is there any standard at all (except perhaps for safety reasons) for modifieds? By definition, a modified car is what the owner wants, not what the factory built! Why can't I earn a gold, silver, or bronze status as a modified? Right now, as the judging rules are written, it is highly unlikely that a modified would acheive the necessary points to reach those thresholds.

    So if you think I am insulting someone, I apologize, this was not my intent. I am simply stating my viewpoint. I have meet several people in POCI that I would consider "purists". They want and indulge in owning restored vehicles. That is their right. I simply think there needs to be equal consideration and respect from the purists for my fellow modified owners and our work too. In my humble opinion, that starts with the POCI by-laws being changed to more openly accept and support modifieds. I am not trying to turn this into bashing or trashing POCI.
    For the record I have also called no one a name nor criticized anyone's car. Frosty, I am glad you wrote back and I would like to chime in on your very good points above.

    1. "Attitude exists toward modified cars" and "they are not supported in the by-laws".
    No question about it, the attitude exists, obviously with your local friend. But I stand by my statement that no one with any power in the club exhibits that attitude that I know of. If there is anyone of influence resisting modified cars I really would like a name because I do not believe it be true, our officers can Email me personally if they prefer. And by-laws aside I truly cannot see how anyone can pick up a copy of Smoke Signals and not think modified cars are included and, in fact, they are obviously prominent.

    2. "The SRM chapter has low membership"
    I was shocked by that. If this is the case it has nothing to do with a low number of modified people in the club, it must be either cost or just little interest in joining an additional chapter (I have been in POCI for 23 years and my only optional chapter is my local club). I would think logically if your suggestion (c) were the case the "unappreciated" would join up in greater numbers to band together.

    3. "Why is there any judging standard for modifieds? By any definition a modified is what the owner wants..."
    Good question, I have no idea myself what constitutes point judging for modified cars. I asked myself yesterday what criteria is used to judge modifed cars and cannot see how it could be anything more than a contest for fit and finish or popular vote (whatever THAT is based on). But I can tell you that the club's Chief Judge (and board member) is devotedly pro-modified, he is not holding back modified judging and never will. Fortunately he is a fair judge of stock cars too.

    But lack of acceptance/respect for modified cars and the need for a revolution/champion/cause? Please. I do not know what your local chapter or some old-timer did to you but I stand by my statement that Smoke Signals, the board and this website are all FIRMLY FOR modified cars and defy anyone to claim otherwise.

    The by-laws are a dusty relic that few have ever read unless trying to prove a point like your friend. So he proved on paper he is right, so what? He is in the shrinking minority and probably knows it. No one is doing authentic restoration on Pontiacs anymore, nor do they value original features except maybe some musclecar speculator who thinks they will add value to his "investment". The points judged categories are probably shrinking and if there is not a rise in modified cars at the convention then it is due to some classification problem, not lack of interest. So if there is some judging problem at the National convention then fix the problem, but if if you think there is someone in power resisting modified cars then they are failing miserably. It ain't happening, it ain't GOING to happen, modified cars of all descriptions are here to stay and there is no evidence to the contrary. Thanks for writing back though, Todd C

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Southeast MI
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Todd,

    I am starting to enjoy this debate. So let me respond to your excellent points.

    1. "...I stand by my statement that no one with any power in the club exhibits that attitude that I know of. If there is anyone of influence resisting modified cars I really would like a name because I do not believe it be true, our officers can Email me personally if they prefer. " I agree with you that no one is intentionally blocking modifieds, or least actively and consciencely trying to do so. However, I have been in multiple social clubs and even a social council (a group of similar purpose clubs) for over 20 years myself, the way these organizations operate is strictly within the scope and interpretation of their by-laws. So the POCI board of directors are in violation of the by-laws by allowing modifieds (technically speaking). If someone brought them to task (I am not saying someone would),then you must fall back to the by-laws - much like the gentleman that quoted me chapter and verse. So this needs to be a starting point to give the POCI board of directors the by-law goverance freedom to properly support the modifieds. That said, obviously common sense has prevailed and the acceptance of modifieds is indeed there. My point is there is more that can be done and I am suggesting that it starts there. While by-laws are relics for most, I know from expereince how they can bite you if you are not careful. By changing the by-laws, this gives legitmacy to the board and convention organizers for what is already being done. Is that a bad thing? I think not.

    2. I would like to beleive that you are right and that the "unappreciated" would join together and rise up, show solidarity to the SRM and the POCI board as a whole. I'd love to see that and I would welcome it. Obviously people will or won't put forth that effort unless they are truly passionate about getting something changed. It has been my expereince that if someone feels that unappreciated, then they will leave and quit altogether because it is easier or they are not passionate enough to take up the fight. A lot of other people are apathetic and just deal with things as they come along and shrug it off. I am not saying this is the right thing to do, but it is more likely to happen.

    3. I agree with you that judging of modifieds would be more difficult. Perhaps we should look at what is used to judge the Riddler or America's Most Beautiful Roadsters (as you suggested - fit and finsh). I think there needs to be some level of safety too (such as working brakes, tires, steering, use of safety glass, fire extinguisher [I know POCI already requires this - which is a good thing]). I would also think that carrying out some sort of theme might be appropriate for the really top notch customs (like the '48 Tiki Woodie). I glad that you feel the chief judge is a devote modified person.

    I accept your opinion that the Board, Smoke Signals, and website are firmly for modifieds. I also agree that modifieds are here to stay for every car marque out there. I just think that there is more that can still be done. Especially to add that level of legitmaticy I spoke about before.

    There will always be snobs and bigots in any large crowd or group. I suspect you are right that the judge classes are shrinking. I think it is shrinking more because of the cost involved to do a high quality restoration. Having been to Scott Tieman's shop and I've seen the level he takes these cars under his care to, that cost can easily outstrip most people's wallets. So it almost takes an investor level person to do that level of restoration. Most of us can not afford it.

    I would love to work with you on how to best change the judging standards for modifieds. Classification could be an even greater issue too - depending on how you try to caetgorize them. You will never please everyone, so you have to use the 80-20 rule and go for the best plan you can. Over time, and driven by expereince, this will be refined better and better.

Similar Threads

  1. 67 Tempest Custom, 4 door Interior Question
    By yendorofny in forum Tempest and LeMans
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 3rd, 2013, 22:52
  2. 505 EFI Street Motor
    By TININDN in forum High Performance
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: November 8th, 2010, 19:20
  3. Street Rod Tech Advisor
    By decotriumph in forum POCI Member Rides
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 5th, 2010, 21:35
  4. Street Rod Tech Advisor
    By decotriumph in forum General Technical
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 5th, 2010, 21:35
  5. Street Rod & Modified Chapter
    By decotriumph in forum General Technical
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: November 20th, 2009, 08:21

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •